I HATE shifty Internet Marketing (rant enclosed)…
(Added Forward: It turns out that I struck a chord with this post. If you want to get the word out, please click the link above to Digg this post.)
(Further Update: The website I posted about no longer advertises its trial as “free” - it clearly states that it is $1.)
(Further Update: I removed the reference to the company as I honestly just didn’t feel right in defaming them. It is not so much the company that I am ranting about here as it is the techniques.)
Ok, if you are a regular reader of my blog then you know that I have never before posted a rant here.
I know there are a lot of scam artists out there, but never before has one affected me so much, so I am very motivated to post it here for all to see.
First off, let me tell you something - I HATE SHIFTY INTERNET MARKETING PLOYS!
I’m not talking about bad products that don’t deliver (although I hate those too) - I’m talking about dishonest and unethical forms of selling that product.
For example, have you ever seen one of those countdown timers that says “This special offer is only available until midnight! Act now!” Then you go back the next day and see that the same offer is available until midnight of the next day!
What happens with your trust of that business? Or that marketer? And all of this because they want to add an extra percent to their conversion rate.
The funny thing is, you can increase your conversion rates through SEVERAL other ethical ways, and yet companies (big and small) choose to “trick” their customers into making a purchase.
Enter the company that I dealt with. I am not going to mention who they are simply because I don’t want to give them ANY publicity (negative advertising is still advertising). However, I will tell you what happened.
Recently my wife and I decided that we wanted to open an e-commerce store selling physical products. She started looking around for good directories of wholesalers and dropshippers.
She came across a site that seemed promising, and offered a free trial to access what was inside.
She clicked on the “Free Trial Signup” link, and started to fill in the form. It, of course, asked for her credit card information, but promised her that she would only be billed $1 and NOTHING MORE.
Here is the EXACT wording on their site:
There will be no additional charges to your card beyond the one dollar! You have a seven day trial.
First off, since when is a free trial $1? Putting that aside, I understand the importance of charging $1, as you want to make sure it is a good credit card and that the customer is serious.
Well, when my wife entered the site she found that it wasn’t that great, and worse yet, trial members hardly get access to anything. The only way to be able to use the site is to upgrade.
So much for that trial, she thought, and left the site.
Well, on our next credit card statement we noticed not one, but TWO charges from this company! One charge was for $59.95, and the second charge was for $39.95, both within a day of each other.
I saw the charges, and realized that they automatically charge for the subscriptions. This wasn’t a huge surprise, as I do the same thing, but I always make it abundantly clear that the customer will be charged.
So I call up the company four days after the charges appeared on my credit card and asked to cancel and refund the money.
“Sorry,” said the person on the other line, “there are no refunds whatsoever.”
After several emails and phone calls, they still refused to give me a refund.
That’s when I looked closer at their “free trial” sign up form. I noticed on the right hand navigation bar there were two other “bonuses” for signing up, both which clearly stated were free with the membership.
Well, I guess to this company “free” costs $39.95 per month, because that was the second charge on the credit card.
I looked closer, completely in disbelief that a large company such as this one would just charge my credit card without giving me any warning whatsoever, and that’s when I found this small print disclaimer at the very bottom of the page:
There will be no additional charges to your card beyond the one dollar! You have a seven day trial. If you decide to cancel within the seven days your card will not be charged. If you decide to continue, you will get charged on a monthly basis for a minimum forty nine dollars and ninety five cents.
This was in ultra-tiny print far below the button to start your trial.
So there, they included it on the page. I guess they weren’t lying, right?
Well, of course not! If it is in your terms and conditions, and if you include it in tiny print at the bottom of the page where nobody reads then it must be ok, right?
Well, that makes it right legally, but is it really right ethically?
Oh, and it gets better. If you try to close the window before finishing the $1 “free” trial, one of those “live sales chat” windows appears, telling you there are only 4 slots left in the trial offer, and that they are expected to sell out within the next 3 minutes.
That’s funny, I saw that there two months ago…
Matthew Glanfield
P.S. There is a point to this post - DON’T USE SHIFTY MARKETING TACTICS! You can make money honestly and ethically online, and your customers will love how they can actually trust you.
P.P.S. Please feel free to post your comments, even if you don’t agree with me.
[…] I HATE shifty Internet Marketing (rant enclosed)… I looked closer, completely in disbelief that a large company such as this one would just charge my credit card without giving me any warning whatsoever, and that’s when I found this small print disclaimer at the very bottom of the page … […]
This one makes me REAL MAD!
By the way, you can always go to your bank and file a dispute on the charge. Your bank is always at your side… talk to them.
Ian del Carmen
http://IanDelCarmen.com
You know Matthew, I agree with you completely here. I bypassed the ‘buy a virtual sales agent’ offer that I have been bommbarded with just for this reason, and I never sign up my credit card for any ‘free’ trial, after all, if its free, why do they need your payment details? If I want it, and I like it after the trial, then I will go back and buy it. If that option is not available, then they have lost my sale!
Katie
I completely agree. This tactic is wrong. I got caught in a similar marketing ploy. The fine print spells it out, but its hard to read and they spell out “forty nine dollars and ninety five cents” instead of $49.95. Sneaky at best.
To me, its stealing.
Hi Matthew, that’s very true but I believe most marketer use it as it’s somewhat effective too. I’ve fallen into this kind of “tricks” before.
It was kind of a script that increases the selling price of the product every seconds a few cents and I was emotionally move to take action.
Thanks for sharing Matthew.
Hi Matthew. Let me guess, it was one of those “free offers” that you see so often in CPA campaigns, right? Most of them are notorious for using these kind of tactics and I’ve been burned myself a couple of times.
And speaking of shifty marketing tactics, I can’t stand those “live sales chat” windows that are popping up everywhere. To me they are just downright deceitful to try and make someone think they are chatting with a live person, when it fact it is just a robotic script. Try asking that “assistant” a question that’s not pre-programmed into the script and see what happens.
Just mho.
[iamsbm]
Sharon Bray-McPherson
Matthew:
I agree with you 100%. I have been burned several times. There is no need to burn your customer unless you product is so bad that even your mother would no buy it from you. Those kind of companies need to be shut down quickly.
I normally use Paypal for these kinds of subscriptions, but even Paypal will not help you if the company decides to take you for a ride. Paypal just says too bad, you are responsible for your actions.
You really need to be careful now days and only deal with companies that other people have verified are trustworthy.
Hi Matthew,
Thanks for your “rant”. Those of us who are relative newbies need experienced people like you to sound the bells and whistles to keep us alert and on track! Thanks for teaching ethical and effective marketing strategies.
Lisa
[…] post by BBO Institute This entry is filed under Credit card. You can follow any responses to this entry through the […]
Matthew,
Thank you very much for bringing this up! I could not agree more!
I hate when people use fine print and try to obscure the fact that you will be billed. It is unfortunately all to often and I dislike saying it but it is very often “made in the USA”.
I completely lose my trust and interest for companies which do business in this way. To me it says that they do not have good products after all so they need to get some money anyway.
I wish there was some kind of a black list for this.
Best wishes
Rolf
The Windmill Operator
We have all been burned by that kind of thing — unfortunately. I recommend that you NAME the company on the web. You are only telling the truth of your experience. I find it excessively polite and understandably diplomatic not to do so, but still, I feel that these b______s need and deserve to be called out — where it counts –in the public marketplace, where their greed and dishonesty can be displayed. It’s not a good look. Of course, they probably don’t and won’t care. Do it anyway, they deserve it.
Cheers! –Philippe
Wow Matthew! Thanks for bringing that topic up. I know which company you are talking about because I did the same thing & had the same surprising charges that I was not aware of until the “tiny” print. Apparently that company is into one time sales and do not care about loyalty or retention. Moral of the story is….be sure to read everything all the way to the copyright at the bottom of the page to be sure you do not miss anything.
Nicole
Unfortunately what you’ve shown is that that kind of sorry business tactic actually works. Looks like they’ve pulled it off, slimy as it may be.
It’s not apparent that you were able to get a refund. Looks like they’re laughing all the way to the bank.
Perhaps you’ve just given an idea to some lowlife reader who would be more than happy to emulate that (apparently) successful business model.
I totally agree with you! It’s crap like this that gives people the impression that internet marketing is nothing more than a huge scam.
By the way, you should dispute those charges with your credit card company.
Denise
I get your emails everyday Matt, and you’re one of the few I bother to look at. I am so sick and tired of the “offers” and rambling sales letters and worthless software.
Don’t these folks realize that they are giving the entire industry a bad name? That they are making it 1000 times tougher for those of us who actually bring something worthwhile to prospective clients?
A friend of mine has spent over $20,000 pursuing her dream of an internet business and has gotten nothing in return except shifty ways to scam Craig’s list, sites that build link pop and traffic for someone else while she gets no sales, and boxes of useless info and programs.
If we don’t clean up our industry I can guarantee that someone else will at some point. In the meantime we’ve all seen sales getting harder to close, offers not doing nearly as well as they did a year or two ago. Backlash against these shifty practices has already set in and we’re ALL paying for it.
I come from a direct marketing backround, so I am familiar with this tactic. Unfortunately, you see more and more of this online.
I understand forced continuity programs, and know how profitable they can be, but it still seems wrong to my to rely on someone not reading fine print or forgetting to cancel a subscription. It seems like everyone and their brother are offering a free CD, (plus S&H), along with a bunch of benefits. The “free” membership is always listed as the 3rd or 4th benefit, never the first. When I subscibe offline, I get a bill and if I really feel that the material is worth it, I will renew. Why not give the 30 day trial and then send a reminder, that it is going to expire, then you will really know if people feel they are getting value.
That’s my rant for the day.
Matthew,
I agree fully with you, as a new internet marketer, I have twice come across sales letters that use clever trickery and wording, into paying for a service and to enter there site, and once there it is nothing to what you are lead to believe, and no Refunds (which was only stated on the payment page). This leads to distrust of all marketing efforts of all marketers, as you are not sure if they are being truthful or not either
being from South Africa it is also not easy to just pick up the phone and phone them to try sort out a problem.
I have found that most FREE information I have received I would have gladly Paid for, than the paid information I have received that is worth nothing.
Regards
Kim
KGMarketer
hey dude…. you give a honest review… i have subscribe your newsletter… and i think this post i like to comment it…
now we see to many people want to sell digital product, and fact they not use they own product, but just sell that product have a license MRR and RR or PLR…. They just push people buy they product and make profit from that(using this method)… honestly.. i have one salespage and one store that selling online product (just same like them) but i still keep the price… not drop that price to $1-$4
p/s : i not good english…
Well as they say what goes around comes around. This could backfire like crazy! I would caution all my affiliates and all other internet marketers I know about such an offer.
Shifty marketing doesn’t go far at all!
[…] JeffnHI looked closer, completely in dubiety that a caretaker consort such as this member would foregather intend my assign bill without heritage me whatever warning whatsoever, and that’s when I create this petite fact forgoing at the noise bottom of the protective … […]
I can see both sides to this type of marketing.
No. 1 you may get less of just tire kikers by One Dollar charge.
No. 2 I would say that it is a 50/50 chance you would learn something of benefit from it!
No. 3 It may trigger something in your thought process to help you!
I think you must go with your gut feel…
thanks,
Gary
Absloutely right, Matthew. I wanted to start an internet marketing business last year, but then my old video production business picked up and I was too busy to do it. I’d signed up for one of your programs and called to ask for a refund. A very polite and friendly person sorted it out for me without any argument. That’s why, when I get round to doing this I’ll be coming to you. I shan’t bother to mention the “big names” whose emails I’ve bulk deleted from my mailbox. I think a willingness to refund as the bottom line in percieved trustworthiness.
Thanks Matthew. I know that the business of Internet Marketing is, on the whole, to sell others to get into internet marketing but some of the tactics are way over the line when it comes to doing it ethically. Glad you got that off your chest. Good on you! I’m sending my subscribers here to read this post.
Jay
Hi Matthew,
Great post… I couldn’t agree more. Your honesty and ethics shone through when I first discovered you online and that’s one of the reasons I read your Emails and blog posts. One has to be selective!
All the best from ‘across the Pond.’
Richard
Couldn’t resist a little ’sleuthing’…and I found them! Please let me tell everybody who they are! People should be warned!
This, and those virtual smart people who aren’t people, and the sales letters that say ‘only 12 openings left’ (for weeks) and other slimy marketing tactics need to be exposed.
I’ve thought seriously about writing a book on it, and still may, but for now I think I’ll start doing reviews on my blog I’ve been neglecting.
I want everyone to be aware that not everyone has the best interest of the customer, despite what they say about establishing a ‘relationship’ with your list. And most especially I want the rookies to be forewarned.
Too often they’re viewed as little more than chum in the sea of marketing sharks, and it infuriates me.
Oh yes…there will definitely be a report written…maybe several.
And guess what? I’ll give them all away FREE!
Honey Wesley
http://thisoldbroad.com
WOW - thanks for taking the words from my mouth, Matthew! Awesome job at spelling out the small print stuff…
I’ve personally not made as many sales as some ‘ahem!’ marketers, but the marketing i have done and sales received have been with >99% customer satisfaction… literally only issues with 1% of them.
Having been in that industry of selling offers like those that you speak of above for nearly 14 months about 2 yrs ago, I stopped even marketing those that had the tricky language… once I found out about the -1 PT font sizes
disclaiming responsibility and honesty - and most importantly - the concern for customers altogether.
Thanks for a GREAT eye-opener!
Yes it is disgusting.
Yes, it is deceitful.
Yes, it is immoral.
It is totally unethical.
No, I’m not about to say but it works because the charge backs I would put on that company wouldn’t be worth their time to fight against.
Beyond that I would write articles similar to yours but, I would NAME THE COMPANY OUT LOUD!
I would warn people to stay away or to take the free trial every 3 or 4 days then cancel and make that a weekly habit just to use up their bandwidth.
You are being too kind to this company. I think you should go to a lawyer and have a form letter sent letting them know that legal action will be taken for unethical business practices unless they immediately send you a refund in full.
Then you should list them on ALL the scam sites you can find on Google and the other search engines. Post your rant on the warrior forum and others where marketers hang out. Call the FBI if they are doing business in another state then you are in since they are crossing a state boarder line!
At the least let them know you will be taking these actions. Not to get the money back but to feel better yourself knowing you could possibly be helping the next guy or gal by making this a**hole company change their evil ways.
Yes, I too have had similar experiences; pisses me off to the point where I take action against the offender to the extreme.
If ever there was a stress relieving technique, the one listed above does the trick every time.
Sincerely,
Bruce Nelkin
PS. I don’t hide behind the net!
[…] Read the rest of this great post here […]
Hi Matthew,
I totally agree with what you’re saying here.
I was caught out by an unscrupulous marketer recently in that same way. Gutted when I went back to the sales page and it was there in tiny tiny print.
But the most important thing was the order confirmation page actually confirmed to me I’d ordered zero cost for a free 30 day trial. It said it word for word. So how on earth they could think it acceptable that I’d given my permission for an automatic subscription charge.
The other scam, of course, is to give you your 30 day trial for free. Then a few days later charge your credit card for one month’s subs. ‘Oh, we bill subscriptions a month in advance’.
Be careful out there guys and gals!
Actually, you were lucky to be able to get through to support contact for this comany because I sent about ten emails in my own case and none were replied to. So I never got my refund.
Unethical for sure.
And hey, guess what - I will *never* buy from or promote or recommend or in anyway connect myself with that person, now or in future.
Fundamental business error on their part, I’d say.
All the best,
Deb
www.onlineinfobiz.com
Blogging about My First Dollar Online
PS Great email btw, certainly got my interest and got me to click thru to the blog.
Hi Matthew,
I completely agree with you.
I have a rant that is worse than yours.I paid Payments,for each payment i was to get $$$$$ added to it.when i added everything up i should have had a small (large to me )fortune.When i wrote asking if my records were the same as theirs igot no answer.I have sent several emails but still no answer.This company is still doing business on the internet.They publisize that you have to be 100% satisfied or you get you money back.I wonder how many more people they have lied to.
Regards
Glenna
Matthew-
Thank you for the story and the admission that even when you do “know the ropes”, anyone can be taken. I am certainly not naive, myself. But that story exemplifies why even the ethical marketers in the industry still have a harder time gaining trust and acceptance. Of course, there will always be a few ” bad apples ” anywhere and everywhere. Huamn nature. But this is a genuine industry and business and if some other agencies come in and start trying to regulate everything, it will, in my eyes, then become no less expensive nor easier than having an offline start-up. From a comment above ” only dealing with dealing with companies that other people have verified as trustworthy “. Very wise advice, and at the same time, wow, now how is the small start-up going to make that happen?
Hi Matthew
Just thought I would chime in with a comment of my own.
I “bought in” to Alex Goad’s “Players with Money” last week. It was on the strength of his videos and seemingly pleasant and professional aura.
His sales page stated that it was a one-time $67 payment, so I decided, “what the heck” let’s have a go at it.
As soon as I got the Clickbank Thank You page, I noticed that I had signed up for a MONTHLY CHARGE of $67 and not a one-time payment.
I sent off three emails to smooth Mr Goad and have yet to get a reply. Clickbank made an immediate refund - being the professional outfit they are.
Players with Money may well be a decent program, but there was nothing on the Sales Page to suggest it was a monthly thing.
All it takes is one bad apple and it spreads - to blogs like this, perhaps.
Regards
This market is getting ridiculous. It is getting harder and harder to know who you can trust. New marketers come in I think with the intention of recommending good product but maybe get a bit lazy and jump on the current bandwagon.
I got caught with a trial. They wanted 12 months and I said no, let me try it and to give it a fair trial I will take 6 months and if going well pay the next 6 months. Once I got inside I realised there was a lot of hype and it was not for me but, hey, I have paid 6 months and will keep going. One month in I got a demand for the next 6 months; I said no, you can have it if and when I am happy with the trial. Guess what? They cut me off and did not want to give me back the other 5 months or let me finish the 6 months.
I agree Matthew. I’ve seen a ton of different marketing tactics in studying internet marketing for the past year or two and a lot of them are less than ethical. I’ve also done various types of sales jobs in the past and have seen less than ethical behavior from my fellow salemen. It’s amazing what people will try to pull for a buck.
Matthew,
It seems that companies that do business like that get a bad reputation, but they keep on getting the unsuspecting newcomers to their site, because nobody is out there calling them out.
Sometimes the only way to get a company like that out of the way is through a loud, negative, public, offline publicity campaign that reaches people in their homes.
Look at how many people still fall for the phishing scams from the Nigerian bankers and the new one is Google Adwords asking you to verify your credit card information, when you are directed to a site that looks just like google, but the information goes straight to the phishermen…
Unfortunately, too much information is flying at us these days to pay attention to even one percent of it… which means we often don’t get the time to hear the information that could save us money or worse… our identity.
Thanks for the rant, it is good to hear you vent a little. Have an amazing day!
Micheal
Thanks for the reminder Matthew. Always be sure to read the really fine print on anything. I know it has happened to me and how many other people out there.
Again Thank You for the reminder.
John Antaya
Hi Matthew,
I completely agree with you and according to the post of Bruce Nelkin i have to say he also is perfectly right. I for myself paid an upgrade of
150$ 6month ago at a PTR site “100euromails.com”
til now they did not activate my upgrade and a requested refund they also ignored (i wrote nearly
100 e-mails)and i now know some more people with the
same problem but they do use the site furthermore
because it’s cheap advertising so they give them the
foundatition doing so. Normaly they (publisher and
advertiser)should boykott such companies.
mrgds and a great time to all the honest
out there
Jayenn
That was a great rant Matthew, and I do totally agree. Internet marketing in many areas needs to change. Although, I’m not so sure it will ever completely change due to the fact that practically any shady characters could go ahead and start an online business. But, people don’t need to be lied to. They should be granted the opportunity to make their own decisions based on the real facts. As for your rant of the online sales agents you get when you try and leave the page. Recently, I participated in the launch of Virtual Smart Agent. The best thing about this particular program is that it is up front and honest with people right from the start. It explains to people that, “I am not a real person, I have been programmed to help you make a decision on your purchase.” This is fantastic, and the reason I like it so much. Honesty, in my opinion will go far further for any online business in the long run I believe. The creator of this program Dave Guindon did a great thing with this implementation. So, it does help to close sales, but, it does so with complete honesty. I’m sure you have heard of it by now, but, it is a breath of fresh air for a product of this type.
Cheers and take care Matthew, and thanx for the rant!
Davin
While your specific example is a clear one.
And further, it is one of an over-the-top
case of fooling people, especially the
unsuspecting…
…I want to add a different part of this
rant…
First, recently Ben Mack, myself, and a
number of highly respected marketers
(including Jay Conrad Levinson) launched
The Guerrilla Balance Sheet…
…and I experienced 3 cases of strange
and frustrating behaviors from the more
than 3000 new buyers generated in 7 days.
a) People called the phone number on the
credit card to ask — is this a reoccurring
charge.
Now, Matt and others, this may be exactly
caused by what you’re speaking of…the
hidden reoccurring charges becoming common.
However, what was interesting to me is
after telling them “no” there’s no other
chargers you’ll see from us unless you
buy something more from us…
…I asked, curiously, prior to calling
how much time have you spent on the report
or looking around the site?
Answer was almost always none…
I then asked, had this been a continuity
program, what would you do/say next?
They said, “I called to cancel.”
Seems remarkable to me.
Buy a product, don’t really dig in, get
worried about future charges, and dial
the number associated with the merchant
to stand ready to cancel.
b) A huge number of people bought a
product and then seemed surprised they
would get emails from us…
…now this is even MORE strange when
the email system was double opt in…
So, you confirm you email so we can
send you the report and other information
and then a large number of people called
us spammers for “emailing them”…
c) The last bit of weirdness was another
group of people who called to question a
$10 charge on their card…
…and while I understand that’s the range
of a charge a credit card thief might use
to see if you’re casual about checking your
card…
I would think when there’s a product you
bought called “Guerrilla Balance Sheet” and
there’s a $10 charge from Guerrilla
Information Marketing, you would be
like, “Oh yeah, that thing…”
But no, people called… What’s this $10
charge.
Over all, and while the vast majority of the
3000+ people were excellent and no trouble.
I was shocked at the amount of “work” for a
low ticket item. So I’ve since moved the
balance sheet to Click Bank…
(In a funny turn of events, the person I
hired to set up the product on click bank
did this http://febene.com/cb/info.html
and for the past 2 weeks there have been
NONE of my graphics on the page and it’s
taken my sending them the “original sales
page” (with graphics) no fewer than 8 times
and I’m told / promised it will work today.
(We’ll see)
So that’s my tip, before moving on, if you’re
going to do low ticket use Click Bank.
As one of the other posters stated, it’s
a very efficient marketplace for things like
refunds and charge backs.
Now on to the part where I’m going to disagree
in spirit with you, Matt but not in FACT.
Your example is a horrid one.
That company is clearly taking full advantage.
With all that said…
Let me tell you about customers who take
full advantage too…
We had a follow up course where a $1997
type/level course was offered digitally for
$597 (the course was being created via
8 weeks of webinars)…
Then in an upsell, we offered an advertising
package where we said, you’ve already
invested $597 in yourself….we will give you
and instant credit of $597 on this advertising
package ….so rather than pay $1500, you
pay only $903 more and you’re golden.
The ad package did not have a refund…
…it’s advertising
Yet, people who later asked for a refund for
the $597 when told there was nothing to refund
because they got an instant credit (instant
rebate / refund) when it was applied to the ad
package thew a fit.
Naturally they wanted to refund the advertising
too…
and what I’ve found is many, many buyers in the
IM niche specifically seem to treat refund
periods as a forced savings plan.
Hmmmm, here’s a $997 product
It has testimonials of people making $10K in 10
days… Heck I have 30, maybe I’ll make $30K
And if not I’ll refund it because in 30 days,
I have my mortgage or rent to pay…
…works for me.
And all in all, people will get full value
from a product and even send you questions or
support inquiries….
Usually starting out with how some bit of life
has happened to them (mother got sick, kids
fell off bike and broke arms, I got another
no where part time job and lost all my free
time)….and while the product is great, it
is exactly as described…
…because this bad thing happened to me, give
me my “needed” money back.
And this is seen as “Okay”….
Now if they had gone to Disney World…
…Disney wouldn’t say, “Oh wow, since your
child fell…sure here’s your Disney Vacation
money back…”
Or, if they had a nice dinner at a restaurant
there would be no “refund” because you got
news your father-in-law needed bail money.
I really think this is a team effort here.
Yes, we need marketers who say things in a
smart/marketing minded way. WHILE avoiding
deception…
…and we need to have consumers who do not
“read” common language and get confused and
believe anything they want and then claim
“rip off” when someone says, “Actually that’s
not what it says…or not why it’s there…or
not in the spirit of the offer…”
Thank you for letting me RANT in your RANT, Matt
Cheers,
Paulie Sabol
Thanks Matthew,
Unfortunately they fail to realize the happy customer effect telling more friends and acquaintances of their good or outstanding experience gets so many more people coming to their site, is far less expensive and more profitable (and a longer life cycle) than the small short gains achieved that way.
Their loss. They’re blind.
Matthew,
All I can say is “diddo”! I’ve been right where you are with another company that sounds very familiar (hmmmm) They finally got slapped by Ebay for using the Ebay trademark in there advertising illegally. Extremely deceptive. I never recovered my $39.00 though. Really chapped my hide.
If you are still looking for an HONEST and REAL WHOLESALE source provider, you may want to check out Worldwidebrands.com and try their product “OneSource”.
Cheers
Well Matthew, I totally agree with you. I’ve experience this same thing before.
I’m in the process of a $1 product and a continuity program myself. It was never in my plan to “hide” the continuity program. It’s going to be in plain sight so they know what they’re getting before they click the button.
No need to read teeny weenie text.
Hiding and surprising isn’t a way to market. We should build a RELATIONSHIP with our customers. Not figure out how to swindle them out of their money and not give them their money back!
If someone asks for their money back, give it to them. It’s good customer service!
Matthew having run into this type of thing in various forms over the years; here’s my solution. I have opened a separate chk. acct just for unknown purchase types. Using online banking I keep just enough for a single purchase that way if I run into this kind of thing I can simply close out that account because I don’t use it for any regular activity.If that happens I’ll just open another. Lot less stress.
I limit my exposure this way.
-Robert
It amazes me that companies still insist on using these tactics. Maybe enough people will get sick and tired of them that we can force the companies to get real…. Well we can at least dream… right?
[…] It’s on Matthew Glanfield’s BBO Institute Blog and you can read the whole post about a very dodgy (imho) Wholesale Dropshipping Directory Site Here […]
Matthew
After 43+ years I have retired from the Insurance Claims Industry. The scams out there only get worse and I have been involved in the investigation & litigation of many during my ‘first career’. Some are whole books of tangled webs. I personally think that most people are honest, but it’s the ones who are not who creat such problems as are laid out here in your ‘rant’. (My first career is too long a story to go into now, but if you are interested…)
I have bought many things on the internet. Most are good, but the few that aren’t are one terrible mess to clean up. Most people don’t want to spend a whole lot of time & money on some of the smaller dollar items. Just get free of them and chalk it up to experience. The business or person or took advantage of you, in essense, gets away with it. Your article is good and as always, an eye opener, and it appears from your respondents to this ad that they all feel the same way. I think most people do. Getting an attorney is just too darn costly. I don’t have a problem with that, as attorneys have to live too!
But…
I think it’s time, & while I know that there are companies out there that may already do this on one level or another already, it is time for a business or group or whatever you want to call it, that takes complaints of problems like you are indicicating and put together a central reporting bureau. Correctly run this could end up being a Strong Arm of marketers and anyone else that wants to join. I think it is a shame that we have come to the point of having to band together to accomplish this, but for very, very little long term membership, it could end up being a central reporting source that not only protects people from being burnt, a place to go before they sign up, but serves as a check point to help them know what is going to happen when and if they sign up and further serves as a list to deter those unethical companies. I don’t suggest a company to do this for profit. I suggest a company that is strictly run as non-profit.
It’s only going to get worse and despite the warnings to people to read and watch out for this sort of thing they are going to get sucked into these deals anyway. A lot of people are happy to pay, for instance, for identity theft protection. The cost of a central reporting bureau for internet record keeping purposes would be a whole lot less than that, depending on what is expected of them. I could go on, but agreed - the internet has proven that no one needs to be alone and banded together the shysters and just under the horizon scammers could really feel the pressure.
Jay
Mathew,
That scam is in full force today with many “Gurus” who I thought should know better flooding their lists with a $1 offer called “GUESS WHO” RETIRES. I replaced the name of the rip off artist with “GUESS WHO”
I received a warning form a legitimate honest “Guru” not to by this $1 offer. It follows the exact method you just described. An embedded credit card charge.
There are going to be some very embarrased “Gurus” promoting this scam…or maybe not.
Jim
Matthew,
I’m no lawyer, but I suspect based on ftc recommendations for proximity of disclosure statements that this type of “hidden negative option” marketing may not even be legal - and perhaps the company has looked at fines vs. conversions and made an economic decision based on that (I’m not saying that it’s right to do that).
You can see the FTC recommendations on Dot Com Disclosures here - recommendations they are making to businesses to help keep them on the right side of the law:
Dot Com Disclosures
Thanks for all the great comments everybody! I didn’t expect this kind of reaction, I was more just talking about what I hate seeing in this marketplace.
And Paulie, I completely agree with you. It does go both ways, and I appreciate your long discussion on the subject.
It’s amazing to think how much business would be better if both the marketer and consumer were 100% honest.
Matthew Glanfield
Hi Matthew,
I completely agree with the point you were making, but is it possible that during a big launch that technical difficulties might be in play? There is one today where a well-known marketer is giving away his seminar for a $1 donation and makes it clear that you are also subscribing to his paid monthly newsletter which you will be charged for. There is a link in the confirmation email to cancel the subscription (I am already subscribed in this case) but the link in the email and the link on the newletter both bounced (ouch). I respect this person and tend to believe that it is due to server overload during the launch. What would you think of that?
Larry
Hi Matthew,
What a timely e-mail. Just today I was offered the deal of the century to get a hold of a marketing plan for $1 from an internet marketer that was retiring (how nice). Before I could digest it, I received another e-mail from another marketer telling me not to buy it, as it contained hidden memberships and other bad stuff. I guess the mustard is off the hot dog now. The $1 too good to be true offer is, alas, too good to be true. I’d rather have someone charge me up front for something with a simple offer than have to wade through a 10,000 word sales letter with all the hidden gotchas. Many times I’ve almost fallen for it only to read the fine print and stop. Don’t these people know they are ruining their reputations? So many launches, so much stuff, so many solutions in search of problems. Price countdowns, price increases $.10 each 30 seconds, robot chat popups, 5 upsells before you get where you need to go, $2500 seminars that will never happen again, gurus retiring and spilling their guts the last time for $1. April 15th tax sales, fathers needing to take their crying daughters to Disneyland, I’m sitting in an airport sending you this special one time offer, and on, and on it goes. Just be careful of all the craftiness.
Matt, you and your wife have my support. I have been a member of your websites for some time now.
I have learned that there are many businesses out there with so-called free trials and low cost trials.
I just wanted to share a tip: when I am curious about a particular website, and I just have to try their “free offer” I use a prepaid visa card for like $25 dollars and I spend the whole $25 on several sites. I also keep notes in Outlook and remind myself to cancel within the allotted timeframe. I make sure and get printed confirmation of my cancellation.
That way, if a company wants to hide some fine print and try to scam me, I’m one step ahead of them since there’s no money for them to take.
ha ha ha
Hi Matthew,
As everyone probably knows from the countless emails, Matt Bacak is running his ‘retirement’ promotion, where he ‘gives’ you a video product for $1.00
I’ve never had much respect for this guy as a marketer and I’ve heard from a couple of sources that Matt’s $1.00 special is somewhat deceptive.
Unknown to people that signup for the $1 deal and give their credit card info, they’ll automatically be enetered into his $29.00 a month program. And the bad thing about this is that the customer is not told about this until he receives an email after the transaction is complete.
He goes on to brag about making 3 million dollars online. Is this the type of business he does to make all that money? He should be ashamed of using such underhanded tactics.
Maybe if Matt gets unough bad publicity about his deceptive methods, he really will retire and there will be one less promoter doing this sort of thing!
Matthew,
Thanks for the heads up you have done exactly what we all need to do that is speak up a let all of our friends know about these types of businesses.
I also applaud you on keeping it as informative as possible with out letting the situation pull you down into the negative sidetracking event.
Thanks for letting us (me) know about this. A very important item that I am able to get from this is that you are correct there are many many other ways to increase you revenue with out stooping to the tactics that are outlines in this post.
You teach many of them. Kewl!
Happy Netting!
Rod
Thank you for the great post, Matthew.
Just another tip to help out the beginners, which you have always done well with.
I think some good advice for those starting out is to remember you will not make immediate hundreds of dollars online without putting in some work, and investment first. Some of that work should be following a few better known marketers with getting on their email list, and seeing whether they can be relied on LONG before you think of buying anything.
I’ve been burned by one coaching offer, but have reaped multiple benefits from more reputable and known people, whether from free advice, or a small outlay.
A lot of great comments already on this. So, obviously, it was a subject that needed to be opened up.
Paul
I’ve been scammed by a company, a so-called
insurance company, They called me and
said that I should try out their product with
a $1 debit on my debit card, I tried to tell
her I was not interested, but lo and behold,
it showed up at my bank. Then, I tried
to call the number provided to the bank,
no working number: tried to look up the company
on the net, but there is no Google listing
for that company, no whois listing for the
company.
So, I had to cancel my debit card, causing
me a lot of work with other companies that I
subscribe to and generally, a lot of work.
Buyer beware as they say.
WorkAtHomeTruth:
Yes these practices are illegal and I once worked for a company who had a full fledged FTC investigation launched against them. Bank accounts were frozen, the sites were forced to close temporarily, payroll couldn’t be met, investigators were poring over records for almost two months.
In the end nothing was found and we were “off the hook” (a competitor lodged the complaints hoping to drive us out of business), but the lost customers, lost sales and just the hassle itself was a nightmare.
Right now the FTC is concentrating on the MLM scams, but as I said before - sooner or later they will get around to us. We either recognize we are an industry with many millions of dollars changing hands every year and act responsibly, or someone else will take over the policing of our offers and claims and accounting practices.
I think a “Good, Bad and Ugly” sorta site would be a good idea. Not a zillion of them, all run individually, but a central clearing house that was perhaps run by a few of the marketers who have established a reputation for customer service, quality products and integrity. Maybe even a BBB style trusted rating could be given to those marketers who practice good business ethics and truth in advertising.
Just a thought but it could be good for all of us.
What really surprised me the most more than anything else that I have seen you ever write before Mat was
I’ve been scammed by a company, a so-called
insurance company, They called me and
said that I should try out their product with
a $1 debit on my debit card, I tried to tell
her I was not interested, but lo and behold,
it showed up at my bank. Then, I tried
to call the number provided to the bank,
no working number: tried to look up the company
on the net, but there is no Google listing
for that company, no whois listing for the company, prm health options. If they read this
they will find out that they cannot bill me.
Also, they never sent anything through snail-mail
or e-mail. Watch out.
company.
So, I had to cancel my debit card, causing
me a lot of work with other companies that I
subscribe to and generally, a lot of work.
Buyer beware as they say.
Hi Mathew, I know the company that you refer to and I fell for it to. Everybody is to blame for that happening. Since we cannot count on the goverment to help us, we have to have more common sense in dealing with these crooks. That company that you mentioned has a few more companies associated with.
Avoid the ones that only let you see the price only in the order form. Recurring payments are hard to cancell, If you cannot get in touch with the company you are out of luck. Do not trust Paypal with your money, because they could close your account with no explanation. Try to tell the goverment to help you against Paypal! LOL.
Thanks, JV
Ripping off good customers hurts everyone of us doing business on the Internet because it destroys buyer confidence and we then all get painted with the same ugly brush and the buyers become equal opportunity bashers.
My main bitch is all of the hype that leads to a purchase to then receive a download that is an exe file. Since I am not part of the PC world and resent MAC users being treated as step children it really pisses me off when these sellers refused to refund when they never mention that their products are made ONLY for a PC…go figure! Are some of these people really this stupid?
With one of these sellers that charged me $197, it took 4 months to get a refund… I could start dropping names, too.
It is not so much the $197, its the feeling of being easily violated that sets me off, especially since I have been in business for 23 years and cherish and protect my reputation at every turn.
I ordered a “stock” magazine on a 90 day back, immediate refund,no questions asked guarantee if the information presented on how to pick stocks didn’t net results
This magazine mainly gave you a teaser paragraph and no other info. The rest of the magazine consisted of heavy soliciting to buy other products to help you select your best stock options.
I emailed the company well within the 90 days and explained there was no way a person could pick a stock with so little info just based on their magazine. I received no response. I emailed them 5 more times. After the third email I received a response with a support number. After waiting two weeks, I emailed them again using their support ticket number and a copy of all my emails. They responded back 3 weeks later with a promise to give me a refund and it would be posted to my account within 3-5 business days.
That was three weeks ago today and still no refund.I did receive an email saying they could not honor their guarantee because I did not contact them within 90 days of purchase. I called Clickbank and provided all my emails and that I ordered the program and refund according to their timeline.I also told Clickbank why I was asking for a refund.They issued me a refund a few hours later.
It just makes me hopping mad when supposedly reputable companies do not deliver the goods but do everything unethical in their power to keep the money.
Clickbank is really great about resolving such issues.Just keep copies of every email and support ticket page so you have proof.If the comment section has a scroll down section and the only info that prints is what is visible to the eye,pack as much relevant info in there as possible. AND PRINT IT!That is what got me my refund.
Ah yes, the old “negative billing scam”
I believe a certain cable service provider
here in Canada tried that one a few years ago.
They don’t tell you that unless you take an action
within a certain time you begin being billed and
no refunds will be considered. The courts
considered the practice to be illegal
(at least in Canada) and ordered all monies returned…Imagine that!
Incredible story. These guys need to be reported to BBB. I’m glad you finally disclosed the name of the website Matt. You need to make people aware of Bozos like this.
albert grande
Matthew
To be honest I think you are kind of a babay when it comes to this whole thing. I actually had the same thing happen to me with a company called Doba. I contacted them and Blamed them for me being chargedd but after after arguing with them for 15 or 20 minutes try to get to a supervisor, I just hung up. I was balming them for me not reading the fine print. Yes, it may not be the best of advertising but I learned to read terms and conditions so this does not happen agian. Did you or yor wife read them the first time? nope! I dont agree with writing a whole blog bad mouthing a compnay, because you and your wife didn’t read everything that was provided to you.
My question is did you email a Director or CFO of the company yet?
Maybe someone in there marketing department made a mistake when they put “free” on the sign-up page.
I am not saying I agree with the way this comapny or other companies do business but atleast this comapny and the company I got charged from had it listed on the site they will be chargeing me after the seven days.
Write about something postive…. or a comany that charged hundreds of dallors with no information and commited fraud, not your carelessness
I think this is very much a case of buyer beware.
Buyer be aware.Its always a minority that cause problems and maybe here there is legal infringement.
Perhaps an offer that says trial should be scrutinised carefully, but when someone is out to scam you, thats tough. Then of course there are tin pot gurus with rotten offers that dont have a recurring charge. They just pound you with more of the same.
I’d love for everyone to be on the up-&-up but i purchased aome download files just today that for just $1.00, but when i got the e-mail for the download i find out that they just gave me a free one month membership to another program of theirs at $29.95 a month that if i failed to cancel they would begin taking that out of my CC that i purchased the $1.00 item for. So i quickly made contact to cancel even my one month free membership! This is wrong and should NOT be allowed and besides it was one of the top “GuRu’s” of the Internet information business, so it’s getting pretty bad when even the top marketers starts tapping your funds without you signing up for it. Now you can get products that you didn’t log in for. So read everything very closely and be sure to check the receipt that you receive back!!
Hi, Matthew
I really do sympathize with you and your wife. There is an increase in this type of thing and it must be stopped before it gets that out of hand that people start accepting it as par for the course. It is ludicrous that some companies thing that they have a right to charge our credit cards in this manner. I for one may have missed some prime opportunity’s in marketing because i will not get involved with any trial product if there is an initial fee. I do not care even if it is one cent.
Another thing i came across in my marketing venture around six to nine months ago was a site that set you up with a store. The site was called “moneyspinners”. Apparently it should cost $1097 but that is waived and you can have the site free.
It offered a free membership, so i took up a free option. Within two days i got an email saying that i had made a sale of x dollars. I thought well that’s is pretty darn good and i was tempted to go for the upgrade. But something stopped me. I realized that i had not even started promoting it.
I thought ok! i will wait a while and see if i get any more dollars in my account. I even started promoting it like wildfire, but even after six months no more money was being earned. I was not prepared to spend anything upgrading as i was convinced that the initial amount of money that i had so called earned, had been planted in my account to give me the incentive to upgrade and part with some cash.
The money that was in my account was not quite the amount that i needed to get it transfered to my paypal account. Need i say more on this.
A few minutes ago i went to the site and guess what, i cannot login so i thought that i may have
my information wrong so ask for my detail to be sent. Detail arrived within 10 seconds. Back to the site and still no good. How can my info be wrong, they have just sent it to me.
BE WARNED ALL THAT READ
Vince Andrews
Hey Matthew,
I was surprised to see that ad on your blog for
“Rebate Processing”. I had a very BAD experience
with “Angela Penbrook”.
I ordered it to find out, it’s nothing more than
affiliate marketing. You have to run you own ads.
When someone purchases a product that has a rebate,
Say for $40 with a $10 rebate, you receive the $40
and send them the rebate, you keep $25. She even
states in the materials that you can just keep the
$40 and not send the rebate. is that a scam or what? The sales letter was very misleading.
The day I ordered and received the materials and
found out what it was, I immediately ask for a refund, but of course I didn’t get it. I’ve asked
for a refund four times and have still not received it….
Matthew,
Great story- I am impressed how many comments you were able to get on your blog in a short time.
I agree with your point that the company should have been a lot more clear with the terms.
I would have phrased it like “Pay just $1 today, then if you decide to stay, we’ll automatically charge you 59.95 per month, starting 7 days from now.” or something like that. My point is that where I mentioned the $1 I would also include the recurring part.
It should be assumed that when you’re paying for a trial and billing info is collected, then there’s going to be a recurring charge, but it shouldn’t be buried in fine print somewhere.
What really stinks is that this messes things up for the rest of us who run membership sites or other continuity programs and are clear about the terms, since it makes some people assume we’re all scammers.
On a couple other points, I saw that Bacak offer today, and it was made clear that you were also signing up for the recurring newsletter charge, and it even explained how to cancel it. So I don’t think it’s fair to lump that in with this one.
Also, the new robot chat software defaults to telling people it’s not a real person. People need to read better, I guess. I’m using it on some sites to let people ask questions, which I can then use to improve the sales letter and/or product. If anyone thinks that’s unethical, I’d love to hear their logic.
What took you so long?
At one point when I considered selling on Ebay I researched a few of the drop shipping companies. Based on the details of your rant it seems to me to be common practice with these types of companies.
I joined one of the big ones and they did the same thing. Their name starts with a “D”.
I also noticed a lot of the comments complaining about the popup customer service reps. My take is you are seeing them because they work! If they did not we would not be seeing them.
Personally I like ranting about injustice and do it often at my site.
Hy Matthew the best place for getting access to Wholesalers is Chris Malta,and the people at WWB.
http://www.worldwidebrands.com/
They specifically work with wholesalers that want to work with us internet marketers.
First let me say thank you to you Matthew for the post and Paulie as well. This is certainly not an uncommon practice and Paulie hit it right on the head.
We as consumers need to do our due diligence when buying online and offline. We as marketers online and offline also have a great responsibility to our visitors and customers to not misrepresent ourselves and our claims.
Paulie mentions how people abuse our refund policy’s and treating them like a forced savings account and he’s right but the other part of it is that we need to also make sure that our customers understand that our results are not typical. They can be achieved, but they’re not typical.
I mean there is SO many things that contribute to ones success both online and offline. I can’t attribute one product or one service or one course to my success online. I can say that with a combination of my online learning and support along with years of hard work those things in combination have attributed to where I am today.
Anyhow, thank you again Matthew and everyone and I would just take this as a lesson learned and move on.
Chris Morris
There are many other shady tactics, though this example is particularly despicable. Today, I wanted to grab a DVD from a major marketer- a FREE DVD (of course with a $7.95 S&H charge) and another set of FREE audios of a major guru seminar (they only cost $1, streaming on the web, no physical CD or DVD). Of course, you had to navigate through 4 different upsells and then find the link to get your $1 “Free” access….all the while getting emails “only 2 left”…for several days! All based on a very shady announcement of the guru’s imminent retirement (totally untrue).
Now, back to the first guru’s Freebie (the $7.95 one)…STARTING 4 DAYS AGO I needed a payment solution other than credit card (Paypal). no way to contact them except through their “Automated Customer Service Desk”. (That should have been the red flag right there- those desks, manned offshore if at all, are a dead giveaway of someone who wants your money but not the ‘hassles’ of customers- run, don’t walk, away!!)
But I digress- so I filled out the ticket. 24 hrs later I got a response from ‘Bill’ the ‘Personal Assistant’ to the guru: “Nope, only credit cards.” Now in the time it took Bill to frame his elegant and useless reply, along with the inclusion of his powerful title, he could have set up the ability to take Paypal exceptions and “assist” me in getting the goods and his boss in getting the money, but he CHOSE not to. So his boss’ autoresponder is hounding me as to why I abandoned the sales page for two days- and I asked Bill to explain to his boss why I hadn’t completed the deal, or give me direct access to him and I would. A day later, an email from Bill said “I don’t remember you, please fill out a help desk ticket. I did, not just because I wanted the STUFF, and an ANSWER, but now would like to get Bill fired, or at least reprimanded (seems like just taking his title away might kill him). Sheri answered it several hours later- “Nope, credit cards only- maybe paypal virtual credit card would work” and no response to access to the owner. A rather ambiguous answer: no, then maybe (a wrong product name). 4 days have passed, the owner (who I’m now convinced LIKES to hide from customers) doesn’t know about Bill’s behavior ( unless he’s the one who trained Bill and Sheri to do it this way).
There’s all kinds of sleazy scum in the big guru pond. Avoid it whenever possible.
Hey MobyMom;
Good sentiments until you mentioned BBB…Any small businessman knows BBB membership is nothing but a protection racket. You pay them money, and they, in turn, will make sure that any complaints about you will not get into their main database. So when someone complains, their answer is ” we haven’t received any complaints”.
Hi - a response from the UK. I read your blog with interest as I’ve almost fallen for the $1 ‘too good to be true’ type ads myself and really really hate those that have a countdown before they’ve sold their last product, e-book, programme or whatever. Amazingly they will still be counting down to midnight the following day if you revisit the same site.
In the UK the products and the opportunity I represent all abide by the DSA (Direct Selling Association) who in turn are governed by the Office of Fair Trading. Do you not have something similar in the USA where such scams could be reported and the sites closed down?
When I was first looking for a home based business opportunity I was staggered at the amount of opportunities whereby one could earn a six figure income in a month without apparently doing anything, selling anything or providing a service. In the 5 years I’ve been working on line I think I now know how they earn many of their 6 figure incomes - by conning people as described in your rant, and as other people have also experienced.
Keep up your feedback - great for newbies especially! Best regards
I once thought that marketing is mostly about controlling/swaying the perceptions of the audience and this falls under that category. They ‘lead’ you to a certain destination…but that leading should dictated by a certain ethical code of conduct. Perhaps,internet marketers need to unionize?
I hate free trials that only show you the so-called advatages of upgrading…
Most people don’t read the fine print and this is how companies like this get money…most people forget to cancel.
“Tafiti Consulting” is associated with “[REMOVED]” and also “Bill Killer” ( no way to contact them). I wonder if “Bill Killer ” even exist and is just a front for scam marketing. As soon as they get your money you’re history. So,any of these sites it is wise to avoid and expose them for what there are — FRAUDS.THEY DO NOT LIVE UP TO THEIR ADVERTISING and PROMOTIONS. Who are you to believe? Leonard
I wrote a short free report a while back exposing this kind of scam. The report can be downloaded at http://www.wellbegunmarketing.com
I have found that this scam is usually used in conjunction with a physical product. People are happy to pay a very small S&H charge to get a DVD or a book. This gets them to approve the credit card charge.
The essence of the scam is that the high-priced subscription is hidden away among the bonuses (which most people don’t pay much attention to.)
One tell-tale sign of this scam is the use of a credit card instead of PayPal to make the small payment. PayPal alerts the buyer to the creation of the subscription and makes it easy to cancel. The scam artists want to hide the creation of the subscription and make it as tricky to cancel as possible.
Now I see people acting all horrified about this scam but it has been discussed openly (and with great enthusiasm) on many high priced marketing forums for quite some time. I know I saw people eagerly recommending it on Job Crusher, just as one example.
And what I find especially disturbing about this scam is that it targets newbies ans people with no money. I makes me sick to read the stories of how these scams have led to bounced checks and bank fees for the victims.
How do we warn people about this kind of thing without making the IM industry look even worse?
That stinks, Matt. Luckily you can try to dispute the charges with your credit card company and possibly get your money back. Definitely explain that their requirements were written so tiny that no one could be expected to see them. It will help to send them a link to the site too.
Ya know, why take people’s one-time payment unethically when you can do a good job providing a service and have them willingly continue to send you well-earned money every month?! Just stupid.
My site’s dedicated to understanding the people you meet in person, especially the shifty ones. I hope to help others judge character better, though not in the same sense as your issue. Best of luck! Don’t let it slide.
Kristina Powell
www.smarterdating.org
Matthew, sorry for your lost. I too hate this
type of marketing. I have had this same experience
too where they offer it at a certain price, then
you get on the inside and there’s hidden charges
etc, then they got the nerves to bill your credit
card after they mentioned only a certain price.
You know what that led me too one time, I was
using a debit card that I use for whatever type
of internet marketing purchases as like a funding
for advertising, promotion, fees etc and I ended
up being billed tons of times, leaving me with a
$400 lost, and I went through trouble with my
bank because of the amount of charges in
increments and overdrafts, so YES it can be
painfull and these services need to be called
out to warn the rest…
Terrance Charles
www.terrancecharles.com/blog
Hi Matthew,
Great info ..I’m a newbie looking for a way to make some extra money online and we newbies need all the help we can get, as many get caught in this web of decite..
One should name the rascals and let them pay the price ..
As for myself when I see the $1 or the time clock or any of the other crap some marketers try to pull ,I just leave ,don’t care how good it looks and I won’t read through 5 ,10 or whatever pages
of BS to try to convince me they have the best thing ever..
At present I’m in the process of un-subscribing from many marketers sites that looked good at first then all it became was a continued sales letter..like a soap opera..
I’m still sure that I will find a business..
The latest example of this sort of promotion sweeping the web is Matt Bacaks “$5500 Seminar for $1″ deal.
You get the promised material alright (although I’d feel totally ripped off if I’d paid any more than $50 for it), but you are subscribed to a $30 a month newsletter unless you OPT OUT!
Over the years I’ve gotten emails from hundred of so called experts, but I’ve come to the concluion that I could count on one hand the number that I’d actually trust without having to read the fine print in their offers.
I am so sick of all of these free trials leading to monthly memeberships, most of which are crap. Then you don’t get the “free” material until after you’ve been billed. There’s one I’m dealing with now that every emial to support address listed comes back undeliverable. When you call it goes to India, and you’re not sure if you really accomplished what you wanted.
Now when I see one of these “free” offers, I run the other way.
Funny you should post this today…
We were on a rampage yesterday about this very issue on Twitter. Even posted about it here, with the link to the rules from the FTC…
Check it out:
http://ablakeforum.com/index.php/topic,577.0.html
[quote]This one makes me REAL MAD!
By the way, you can always go to your bank and file a dispute on the charge. Your bank is always at your side… talk to them.
Ian del Carmen
http://IanDelCarmen.com[/quote]
Look who’s talking…
…the Pot is calling the Kettle black!
Hi Matthew
Seems like alot of people have experienced what you had described and agree with you. And it is so true that these people just make the whole internet marketing business like a big scam.
I was scammed a few years back and paid thousands for services that were not delivered satisfactorily. Boy, was it an expensive lesson.
On David’s comment on Matt Bacak, well, Matt did this $1 deal as revenge to those who ripped him off. However, I feel that he has ripped off his former students, who I believe should be the majority, by selling information (which was supposedly exclusive to his students)they bought from him for $5500.
However, to be fair to Matt Bacak, his office will unsubscribe you if you inform them via email that you wish to discontinue the subscription.
Thanks Matthew
Very true… thanks for going into great detail. I was planning to offer a continuity program for my next launch. You really have to treat your customers fair. You only need to deceive them once and your name is on the way to being knocked around.
Hi Matthew
What a travesty of ethics, fairness and good business! I hope this company’s shifty tactics become evident to more and more people in the online community so that they cannot continue such practices without being shunned by potential customers.
Clarence
Mr. Glandville, there is another bad taste type of marketing around. After you peruse the sales page of a product, and you see the price,but are still not interested,when you try to cancel X the page, suddenly there appears a robotic message saying that if you purchase you will get a discount. When will they wake up? I automatically wipe them out and unsubscribe to their list immediately. This is another type of cheating. We do not like to bargain and expect your price to b e the ‘best’ one. Regards Harry (Sydney,Australia).
Chris Lockwood Says:
“On a couple other points, I saw that Bacak offer today, and it was made clear that you were also signing up for the recurring newsletter charge, and it even explained how to cancel it. So I don’t think it’s fair to lump that in with this one.”
Hi Chris. The Bacak sales page does mention the recurring newsletter charge - now. It was added after folks started questioning the unexpected forced continuity charges and talk of not following the FTC rules were mentioned.
Chris Lockwood Says:
“Also, the new robot chat software defaults to telling people it’s not a real person. People need to read better, I guess. I’m using it on some sites to let people ask questions, which I can then use to improve the sales letter and/or product. If anyone thinks that’s unethical, I’d love to hear their logic.”
And yes, Dave Guindon’s Virtual Smart Agent does reveal that it is not a real person - but the majority of those that I’ve seen up until it’s recent release do not.
Unethical? Perhaps not, but I do think it is deceiving, especially to those outside of the internet marketing arena who do not understand that the “agents” are just scripts.
There’s lots of marketing methods that “work”, that doesn’t mean that everyone agrees with or uses them.
Regards,
Sharon Bray-McPherson
Matthew,
You seem to be no different than the people you talk about. In your email you give us this big build up about a company doing shifty marketing and tease us with I can’t tell you who they are here, don’t want to give them any free advertisment, but if you go to my blog I’ll reveal everything only to go there and say Oh I’m sorry but I’m not going to give out that information now. Was this all a ploy just to get us to your blog…. Hmmmmm!
Sorry Matthew, but this kind of marketing is very common. But I say “sorry” because you should be more careful when reading and interpreting what you read.
Like for example, you misinterpreted “There will be no additional charges to your card beyond the one dollar! You have a seven day trial.” Your comment was, “First off, since when is a free trial $1?”
You see, nowhere did it say that it was a free trial. It was a 7-day trial that cost $1, not free. You misinterpreted and thought it was a free trial when it was not. Clearly it stated that it cost $1.
And as for the trial costing $1 instead of zero, I’ve seen many of those, and it is my firm belief that they are not unethical. There’s nothing wrong with charging for a trial. $1 for a 7-day trial is not only within reason, it is, like you said, a way of verifying the trustworthiness of a credit card and the seriousness of the buyer.
Anyway, my point is that it pays to read carefully and fully understand the terms & conditions before purchasing.
Having said all that, though, I must say that I have come across truly devious marketers that don’t even hide the hard truth in fine print; they just don’t mention it at all. And i’ve come across at least one that says one thing in one part of their site, and another thing in another part. And when I asked them about it, they dodge the question — more than once.
The email barrage I’ve been subjected to comes from dang near everybody on the planet, talk about your butterflies and other fly-by-night insects…
I’m blacklisting an entire GENERATION of internet marketing GURU’s, folks.
They are SO outtathere.
We really don’t want congress messing with the internet, so I think the avenue of approach is to the Banking Commities on Credit Card Fraud. There should be a way to ‘Black List’ a company off your card thru your bank (without charge since it is automatic via computers). This would avoid us having to cancel a card and get a new one (cuts down on the card company’s workload as well as ours). I’m going to look at congressional commities to find the right members of the sub-commitiee on fraud.
If your rep. is on this list contact him/her; if not, contact Chairman Barney Frank or sub-committee Chairwoman Carolyn B. Maloney . [They really listen to their own constituants.]
Barney Frank (MA), Chairman of the Financial Services Committee.
Financial Institutions and Consumer Credit
The subcommittee is led by Chair Carolyn B. Maloney (NY). The subcommittee oversees all financial regulators, such as the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation and the Federal Reserve, all matters pertaining to consumer credit including the Consumer Credit Protection Act and access to financial services, as well as the safety and soundness of the banking system.
Subcommittee on Financial Institutions and Consumer Credit
Rep. Carolyn B. Maloney (NY), Chair
Rep. Melvin L. Watt (NC)
Rep. Gary Ackerman (NY)
Rep. Brad Sherman (CA)
Rep. Luis V. Gutierrez (IL)
Rep. Dennis Moore (KS)
Rep. Paul Kanjorski (PA)
Rep. Maxine Waters (CA)
Rep. Rubén Hinojosa (TX)
Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (NY)
Rep. Joe Baca (CA)
Rep. Al Green (TX)
Rep. William Lacy Clay (MO)
Rep. Brad Miller (NC)
Rep. David Scott (GA)
Rep. Emanuel Cleaver (MO)
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(vacancy)
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Rep. Deborah Pryce (OH)
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Chairman Senate Committee
Chris Dodd (CT)
Financial Institutions Senate Sub-Committee
534 Dirksen Senate Office Building
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P: (202) 224-7391
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Financial Institutions
Democrat Republican
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Robert Menendez (D-NJ) Wayne Allard (R-CO)
Daniel K. Akaka (D-HI) Jim Bunning (R-KY)
Jack Reed (D-RI) Mike Crapo (R-ID)
Charles E. Schumer (D-NY) Elizabeth Dole (R-NC)
Evan Bayh (D-IN) Bob Corker (R-TN)
Tom Carper (D-DE)
If it hasn’t already been mentioned, here is a great tip against this kind of fraud:
I use a credit card that generates a new card number for me for every purchase I make, if I choose to do so, and it all comes out on my main statement. It is from a major card issuer, and has always worked for me. It allows me to limit the $$ amount of the charge. The vendor I give the “card number” to, can’t charge me anything else, ever.
Always Google the company before buying, (learned the hard way), and you can instantly find out if others are having trouble, and the steps they took, and sometimes contact numbers, to resolve the charge. Put in “review so & so company”. If you did go through with the purchase, your card statement might have a different company name on it, than the company you actually purchased from, google them also for help from others in the same situation.
As said in another comment, always call your card company, and the correct governmental agencies, with all of the company names that appeared on the website, and your card statement.
Whilst I agree with you, Matthew, I feel you should have named this company; in fact, by not doing so, you are failing in your duty to warn unsuspecting internet marketers. That way, your money wasn’t spent in vain.
A similar sort of thing happened to me with a Matt Bacak promotion. My complaining about it did have an effect, but I can’t say much more about it as I’m writing an e-book identifying both dishonest practises and and practitioners, but only where I have irrefutable proof.
Nevertheless, Matt is at it now with a $1 + upsells, which J-P Schoeffel has described as a scam because in the end, he didn’t get what he was offered for a buck. Now we all know who to avoid like the plague.
In fact, in the six hours of calls in which Russell Brunson interviewed Vincent James, Vincent actually describes his practise of signing customers up for recurring orders. This would be illegal in the UK and the EC.
Anthony
An addemdum to my post a minute ago:
I’ve just seen Chris Lockwood’s post above, where he says (in answer to someone else)that Matt Bacak’s current promotion should not be lumped with the one described here.
WRONG!
Chris doesn’t know the history. It is certainly true that the automatic subscription is made abundantly clear in Matt’s latest offering, but in my personal experience, that was not previously
the case.
I tried to get a refund of the sixty bucks I was cheated out of, asked for the details of his company’s card processor, and complained to my card issuer in the UK.
As I said earlier, there does seem to have been some effect, but J-P Schoeffel says he was still unable to obtain his one-dollar’s worth after turning down four upsells.
As J-P says, what can you expect for $1 anyway?
My answer…people like Matt Bacak.
Anthony Harris
I agree, I’ve been hit by these deceptive charges as well. After a lot of work, I went to Paypal on one and got my money back, only because the item didn’t work. The other, I just lost out on. I am very careful now about “FREE” stuff.
Yeah,
It’s tricky words like,
“Get my success story DVD for free”
But then they tell you “out of stocks” and charge you for everything from “remake the DVD” and “monthly subscription” and others till you find out that they SCAM your money from your credit card.
I’d rather to SUE these people in the afterlife…lol
John made a comment about World Wide Brands earlier… don’t use them. If you are going to find drop shipping suppliers, just go to google and search there. OR use free directories. Don’t pay for them.
I’ve used WWB before- not great.
Anyway, good rant. I can understand. Beware of “free” trials online at ALL COSTS!
http://www.financialnut.com - dedicated to making sure we’re smart financially.
This is exactly the kind of blog I love the most.
Great site!
This is exactly the kind of blog I love the most.